(no subject)

[adrienmundi]

All of you are right; not just in general, but specifically in regards to my previous post. In no particular order, here goes:

I know that I evaluate unfairly, and that the evaluations are skewed towards my fears, and away from my hopes. I'm really not sure what to do about that. I think it would be easier if I only had dealings with the Pantheonic; I suspect trust would flow more easily, if I didn't have the gradual, slow undermining of dealings with others (look, a small 'o'!) to put doubt in, and keep the fear well fed.

I like the idea that gender is nothing more than a criteria such as "blonde" or "slim"; I think I could be more at ease in general if that seemed more universally so. Still, I have doubts; if all the world expected people to be either blonde or brunette, divided existence arbitarily along those lines, what would they do with someone with red hair? With blue? Would they assign status based on how much closer said person is to brunette or blonde, or would they just adapt to the newer color?

I know, that's a weak metaphor. I would like to think that it's just a convention, and that more traits carry more weight, particularly in a more personal context. I think with some, I'm coming to accept, to a degree, that it does. However, doubt creeps in, in that I suspect that, for others, these are categories that matter. I have strong doubts that these categories can be suspended for me alone.

Finishing up now, before other thoughts force their way in; how many of you, if/when you think of me, think of me as either "man" or "woman"? I'm curious, and it's not pass/fail.

Comments

[cmpriest.livejournal.com]

i think of you as "Allen."

of course, i'm at something of an unfair disadvantage, for i first came to know you as a disembodied stream of text, lacking any gender or concrete physical traits.

by virtue of your name i assumed you to be (biologically speaking, as such assumptions go) "male," but upon meeting you (and before i knew of your sensitivity to gender issues) i perceived more complexity than a simple binary properly encompasses.

therefore, i completely cop out of this question, for i lack a good answer.
;-)

[adrienmundi]

Really? So in the cases of personal presence, it's always just "Oh, that's Allen"? I'm curious as to how accurate my suspicion is that gender is one of the fundamental categories people assign to others ("gender", not "sex", the latter of which, while more biologically based, is still pretty much a crap shoot unless one has direct personal knowledge; actually, I wonder to what extent the (figurative) graspability of the latter is enhanced by performance of the former. Interesting, as I tend to believe that the former is based upon assumptions about the latter. What a mess.)

[fairyhead.livejournal.com]

I know that I evaluate unfairly, and that the evaluations are skewed towards my fears, and away from my hopes.

I'm still thinking that the shock collar might be a viable option ...

Finishing up now, before other thoughts force their way in; how many of you, if/when you think of me, think of me as either "man" or "woman"? I'm curious, and it's not pass/fail.

I know we've spoken on this, but thought I'd go ahead and write my thoughts, as well ...

For me, gender is one of those things that I tend to not really think about. Kind of like sexual orientation. I tend to prefer to be blissfully ignorant or oblivious to 'characteristics', like that. Not because they make me uncomfortable, but because they are pretty laden for many people, but don't seem important or applicable for me to deal with people. However, take W as an example - I know that gender is *really* important to him, so it tends to rest a little further up in my mind, than with other people.

On the other hand, there are people who transcend gender (for lack of a better description) for me. Those are the people who I feel close and comfortable enough with that that stuff never really comes into play. Some of it comes from that individual's personal definitions and some from our interactions, etc. So, you, for example pop to mind a first and foremost, Dearest. Then, other things tend to pop to mind, long legs, quick mind, keen wit. Then, after all that, gender might pop up, but not as 'man' or 'woman' ... more like man-woman-not-man-woman.

If that makes any sense ...

[scottopic.livejournal.com]

I'm still thinking that the shock collar might be a viable option ...
*chokes on his coffee*

[fairyhead.livejournal.com]

A shock collar would probably help with that coffee-choking problem, as well ... >:)

[thewonderfuller.livejournal.com]

my default pronoun for you is still "he," so i guess i still process you as a male. part of this could be that i am still waiting for a more appealing alternative than "it" for the neutrality you present, and i don't get enough of the other end of the dichotomy from you for "she" to feel any more appropriate.

more than anything, you are "allen." because of that name's masculine connotation, i think that keeps me lingering over here on the "he" end of the continuum. thinking of you as "ally" feels much more consistent with the vibe i get from you, but no one i know actually calls you that in public, so i have a hard time using it.

[adrienmundi]

It's not the "male" that bothers me, nearly so much as the "man" that's usually associated with it. In my usage, at least, "male" refers to genitals, chromosomes, etc.; while I haven't checked my chromosomes, external morphology tends to support this biologically based term. "Man", however, in my usage is the collection of expectations, ideas, habits, etc., that have been attached to the biologically based term.

[adrienmundi]

Oh, and call me whatever you like, so long as it's not something like "asshole", "cookie", or "muffin"...

[thegoodwill.livejournal.com]

how many of you, if/when you think of me, think of me as either "man" or "woman"? I'm curious, and it's not pass/fail.

I too still use the pronoun 'he' when referring to you. I think of you as a 'guy', both male and man in my own terms. And while I do not attach the significance that you do to the word 'man', or the difference between the words 'man' and 'male' that you do, I am sensitive that they mean a lot to you. I have been shaping my thoughts to think of you as "a male who does not want to be considered a man".