on language

[adrienmundi]

Seriously, is there a workable alternative to the default use of 'brother' or 'sister' in some communities? I know it's meant to be welcoming, to carry some meaning about connection, but for me, it marks me as an outsider, sets me decidedly on edge, and makes me either look to defend myself, fight, or withdraw.

On the subject of social language, I hate being a point of linguistic difficulty for friends. I know I'm oversensitized, but I can't help but note the pauses, the overuse of proper nouns and the occasional pronouns slips as people try to navigate context and comfort when speaking to others. I feel badly for my friends and for myself. I thought language was meant to be a tool, not a rigid overseer.

Comments

[fairyhead.livejournal.com]

I get why you aren't comfortable with that, though I find it uncomfortable for myself for other reasons. I distrust a stranger or almost stranger's presumption of such closeness - at least, that's how it feels to me. Additionally, based on my family experiences, one making that claim isn't endearing themselves to me by invoking less than optimal family ties.

I wish folks would choose a cooler term - don't know what it is. Maybe I'll choose my own term and start using that and see if I can't jump start some obnoxious meme. Hmmm ....

[adrienmundi]

Right. I get that I'm much more willing to engage the concept of community, even theoretical, front loaded rather than earned or over time than you are (if that makes sense). I suspect it's because I want it so much, at least in part, and haven't had enough actual exposure for it to be beaten out of me. But yeah, even factoring out the gendered aspect, I sure as fuck can't imagine any construction that makes me think of my sister as positive.

[skiadaimonos.livejournal.com]

Seriously...
comrade =/

[theinnocence.livejournal.com]

i was about to say comrade as well!

[adrienmundi]

Like I said to F's comments, above, I think too many would balk at the commie taint (despite that being part of what makes it cool). I like 'fellow traveler' for similar reasons, but it's even wordier.

[adrienmundi]

As much as I love the commie connotation to the clearly accurate denotation, too many people in the US (and some very surprisingly rightward leaning people in specific communities) would probably balk for some of the very reasons I like it. Of course, there may be merit in intentionally using language that might jolt others into thinking, too...

[arjache.livejournal.com]

I'm a fan of "cousin" myself, but in a community where they're already using brother/sister, that might have some unwanted distancing effect.

[gement.livejournal.com]

"Sibling" or "Seeeeeeeeeebling!" is what several online communities use to avoid that very problem.

arjache: I hope the distancing would be temporary as people learn to adapt. Also, *snork* at your icon - No no, in the story he came from, they ARE all cousins!

prosphoros: the difficulty of living on a boundary! Systems just aren't designed for boundary conditions, no matter the context. I was raised on the Washington/Idaho border, and taxes got very hairy for anyone who didn't stay on one side of the line.

As soon as someone invents a set of non-gendered English pronouns that don't SUCK, I'm all over it. Meanwhile, yep, we stumble. I personally take it as a challenge. It keeps me and my use of language and my assumptions on our toes. Similar to helping a dairy-allergic date to find pizza she can eat, really. Yes, it's a little trickier, but oh YES when I pull it off properly and make someone's life work better with my care and attention.

[adrienmundi]

The liminal is not often a pleasant place to be, particularly when most others address one from the all too common comfortable center of unexamined naturalization. "Sibling" has structural merit, as a substitution, but it seems to lack... something, maybe even a degree of panache, to make it preferential? I'm not sure, and am probably not being clear, but thanks none the less for the suggestion.

[adrienmundi]

"Cousin" or "cuz" takes me back a bit uncomfortably to my trailer trash roots. Clearly, it's something I should probably come to terms with.

[sarendipatree.livejournal.com]

"Cuz". As in my godfather's nephew who I moved in across the street from randomly 1200 miles away from my godfather's house, and 500 miles away from his town of origin. I think the only proper delination for that relationship is "cuz". Nice and gender-neutral, and literally true to some extent as a description for every member of the human condition.

[adrienmundi]

It's a good idea, but it does take me right back to some of my own issues with poor Southern past and the stigma associated with it. Hrm...

[sarendipatree.livejournal.com]

Stigma is almost never worthwhile.

[adrienmundi]

It's true. It's funny, in that my origins have made accessible way more class awareness than I think is mainstream in the US, but the shadows of stigma past still hover about. In other words, it's only comfortable for me to disclose my poor Southern trailer dwelling past when people express disbelief, which is more disappointing in me than it is rewarding socially.

[hermeticus-noir.livejournal.com]

I admittedly use 'brother' and 'sister' quite often in various communities. I am certainly aware that these terms can be problematic. Gender bias being an obvious case (for me, at least). Also, some people may have very negative experiences with family and using these terms would then communicate the very opposite of the closeness and community I intend when I use them. So I *try* to only use them if I am pretty sure the person I am addressing is comfortable with it.

I am very open to finding or learning of alternative terms to use as well. I don't have any examples off the top of my head right now (besides comrade, already mentioned, but I have some of the same reservations about it as you mentioned), but I think it is important and I'm going to start thinking more about it.

I also feel I won't cease using brother and sister all together. For some people, it communicates exactly what is intended. For them, I will continue using it. But again, I'm going to start thinking more about alternatives as well.

[adrienmundi]

That wasn't targeted on my part, just a reaction to several online sites and occasional flesh and blood communities that I interact with. I know I'm a statistical outlier, but it is often inadvertently alienating for me (for example, when someone I genuinely like from the Arabia event two times back greeted me sincerely and warmly as "brother": I didn't know how to react in a way that was both honest to me, but still acknowledged and honored the good intentions on the act of the speaker).

It's a complicated issue for me; there's the structural problem of potentially unexamined assumptions and the creation of "normal" and "abnormal", and there is often the very good intentions of folks who haven't thought about it, but might be open if presented in a way different than "you're doing something bad". I'm not very good with conveying that message myself, because on one hand I'm really comfortable with structural analysis (maybe too comfortable: it tends to depersonalize things), and on another I'm really, really reluctant to set myself apart as "other" in an otherwise homogeneous group. But, I'm trying to figure a way out to start those conversations, and I really appreciate your thinking on this. Thanks.