Conformity among outsiders

[adrienmundi]

I belong to a mailing list that is ostensibly for "bigendered, third gendered and nongendered folk". It's generally pretty quiet, with this weekend being quite the exception. A short intro has led to what is the latest disappointing example of the struggle for internal conformity amongst "outsiders", specifically in who is allowed to use what words, and how. The linguistic hypocrisy of anyone attempting to make the case that "transgender" can only define those who view gender as binary is staggering, yet it is stated that attempts to break down gender rules and roles only make it harder for "real" trans people who just want to fit into the system. Other examples have also popped up, with the overt message being, "Sure, you can use these words the way you want, but it will only lead to misunderstandings and alienation within specific (ie, this) subculture, so you'd really better just use them the way we do". Ugh. I've never quite understood this sort of thing; it's both mad- and saddening.

Comments

[subjective.livejournal.com]

i'm pretty sure i'm on that list too. was it also the list where someone tried to argue that they're intersex because they are transsexual complete with post-op & full hormone status? eff that. i'm thinking about unsubbing.

there's a messageboard i read (but do not post to) that has similar arguments about names/language all the time. it often makes me want to throw my computer out the window even though i'm trying hard to understand all sides. it also makes me feel like there will never be words that feel right to me.

[scottopic.livejournal.com]

Replying to you so perhaps both of you will give your thoughts.

In the responses to these arguments/discussions in these forums, is it a wish to have a group identity of some sort which makes it m/saddening? If not, why does what they think about labels/words/thoughts/ideas matter?

Not meant to be argumentative - just outright asking.

[adrienmundi]

It's not that it's distressing on a personal level, for me, so much as it is on a common sense/ideological level; why is it "wrong" when others lable X group/individual against their will, but alright for X group/individual to impose their own labels against the will(s) of an other(s)?

Re:

[scottopic.livejournal.com]

Because people are universally inconsistent? ;-)

Your quotes obviously point out that this standard of "right-wrong" is their own construct. Or another way, everyone will use labels and be labelled, so if a group's use of them is unchangeably anathemic to you, ditch them suckers.

Of course, none of this negates the understandable disappointment in finding another segment who may have shown promise in some ways, but then just proved to be the same...in a different way.

[adrienmundi]

My gut response is usually, "Damn, you (collectively or individual) should all know better!"

[subjective.livejournal.com]

for me it's also like, labels & names & language DO matter politically, a lot. i take the co-optation of language & identities very seriously, which is why a transsexual taking on the identity of intersex bothers me so much. but then on the flip side, like a. said, how do we figure out who's "allowed" to do the policing here? a lot of these discussions seem to turn into "transer than thou" arguments which leave me feeling isolated & uncertain.

and yeah, people are definitely inconsistent.

[adrienmundi]

Yep, that's the one, alright. Grrr.